How the RollWorks team Aligns to Speed Partner Enablement Success

[00:02:50] Mike, do you mind giving us the elevator pitch? Uh, I actually appreciate you, um, uh, introducing us. Thanks. Corrina. We're happy to be here. I think Cheryl would actually do a better job at explaining. So Cheryl, I'm going to hand it to you. All right. Well, 

[00:03:05] Cheryl: [00:03:05] you know, roll works has been around for, uh, three years now.

[00:03:08] We just hit our anniversary and Rollworks was birth from next role previously known as Advil who's been around for, I would say 13 years now. And we have a very strong, um, ad heritage, um, in terms of Rollworks and where we're going. And, and you know, where we've been in these last three years is okay.

[00:03:26] Really becoming a strong leader in the ABM space. Um, and, and really what our real goal is for the marketer is to gain alignment with the sales teams and really help understand, you know, their current ICP and understand how to target the top accounts within their ICP, engage with those and actually measure success from those campaigns.

[00:03:48] So that's actually where we're at today in our journey. It's been an amazing three years and we're excited for the journey ahead. How did I do 

[00:03:56] Mike: [00:03:56] my Sheryl? You nailed it. I would just add, you know, so, so Rollworkss. Uh, we have a sister business unit, if you will. So we are a part of a company called next role, uh, and add role, uh, which many, uh, of the listeners probably know, um, is our sister business unit who is now focused on, uh, direct to consumer.

[00:04:16] Uh, more on the B to C side and roll works is focused, uh, for B2B marketers, uh, and focused on that ABM space. So, uh, in case you guys were wondering about, you know, next role is the parent company, then there's Rollworkss and, uh, our sister business unit, uh, Admiral. I 

[00:04:32] Carina: [00:04:32] love it. We have all of the roles. Great.

[00:04:34] Well, Mike, while I have you, can you just give me a little bit of background on yourself and, um, you know, your career and what brought you into partnerships at Rollworks? 

[00:04:42] Mike: [00:04:42] Yeah, sure. Korean. I love talking about myself. Uh, no, no kidding. But, um, really, uh, so, so I've, um, I've been in partnerships most of my career now.

[00:04:52] Uh, I actually founded and sold a few small startups earlier in my career. Um, And then I'll save everyone the long history, but I was at Marquetto, uh, from 2012 to 2017. So I saw the company go from a couple hundred employees up to going IPO and then getting acquired by Vista equity. Um, and at Marquetto I actually, uh, for the first couple of years, did customer success and, and briefly manage the whole customer success team.

[00:05:19] Uh, and then I transitioned into helping build the launch point. A partner ecosystem and managed a lot of our, uh, strategic partnerships there at Marquetto. Then I had a brief stint as VP of partnerships at vid yard, which many of you know, a leading video platform. Uh, and then I went to a big company with the thumbs up, uh, so, uh, where I managed all of the strategic MarTech partnerships, uh, and then I've joined that Rollworkss as VP of partnerships, uh, just about two years ago.

[00:05:47] So that's kind of a little bit of my history. Um, I I've gotten into partnerships. Uh, because I found that I really enjoy building things. So I mentioned I had found it a couple of companies. Uh, so I am that entrepreneur. I like to build things. And one of the things I enjoy building is partnerships. Um, I call it building bridges between companies.

[00:06:07] Um, and so that's. Something that I enjoy doing and why I've gravitated towards partnerships. Uh, today 

[00:06:13] Carina: [00:06:13] I love it. I love building bridges as well, and I will definitely circle back on your, um, experience within customer success and kind of how it's shaped partnerships today for you. But now I would love to hear from you, Cheryl, can you share a little bit more about your background and what brought you into enablement at Rollworks?

[00:06:30] Yeah, 

[00:06:31] Cheryl: [00:06:31] sure. So I've actually been a seller in my past life. I've been an account manager in SDR and an SDR manager. So I've done all types of sales. I have been in the sales enablement and partner enablement space. I would say for the last, uh, maybe. Six years. Um, and in the way that I got in yeah, into enablement and the way that I got into partner enablement was really understanding from my sales management days, my passion for coaching, and really working with sellers on positioning, frontline positioning, and new hire onboarding, and ensuring that we have all the right tools and the resources.

[00:07:06] And so once understanding my passion. For those things, there was this thing that came about called sales enablement. And I think sales enablement is one of those things that's continuing to evolve, especially partner enablement. The last, I would say 10 years, right? I think 10 years ago it was one, four star actually coined the term.

[00:07:23] And so, um, in the ever evolving world of sales enablement, you're seeing now more and more the need for partner enablement. Well, um, at my previous company, a jive software, I led all of the global sales and partner enablement, um, for all of our internal sales teams and our customer facing teams. And also for all of our, uh, partners from resellers to technical, um, integration partners.

[00:07:49] And it's been a fun ride. And so I'm happy to be on this journey with Mike today at bulwarks enabling internally our sellers, but also working with 

[00:07:56] Carina: [00:07:56] our partners. Oh, I love it. And you guys have done such a great job so far as a partner of Rollworks works. I mean, I've had the greatest experience when it comes to enablement and I'm really excited to dive deeper into it today.

[00:08:09] Um, so Mike, I just want to go back to you and get a better understanding of what your partner program looks like today. You know, what are the type of partnerships you have and, you know, your main focus for working with those parts? 

[00:08:22] Mike: [00:08:22] Sure. Karena. So our partner program, uh, I would say that we're. Still relatively early in it.

[00:08:28] I, you know, we're a couple years. Yeah. And, uh, when I joined Rollworks, we really didn't have much of a partner program, but now let's say we're kind of early days. So, you know, you have the crawl walk, run, I would say maybe we're in the walk phase. I think, uh, you know, if you asked me for one word to describe the state of our partner program, I call it ascendant, right.

[00:08:47] Weight, like, meaning we're on the rise. All right. So, so we've gone from crawling. We stood up and now we're walking a little bit, right? So, so we've. Uh, launched several strategic partnerships in, uh, 2020. And then we also launched at the end of 2020 a partner ecosystem of technology partners. So, you know, we've done a number of things that have actually been really great, but I think that we have a ways to go in terms of we're starting to get partners.

[00:09:11] Into the whole company. So we start to have partners being talked about in all different places within the company. And I think that we want to do more work there, right? We want to get every team thinking about partners and how they can leverage partners and how they can drive value from working with partners and you know, how our end customers, right.

[00:09:30] Can be much more successful leveraging those partners that we have. Right. So I think, uh, we're in kind of that middle phase right now, where we've launched a lot and we're trying to drive more adoption, more usage and better results for our end customers. So, so there's still some growth for us in the partner program.

[00:09:47] Carina: [00:09:47] I really like how you, you said that you really want to grow your partnerships. A company-wide, um, thing. I don't know the exact words that you said, but I absolutely love that. And I think it is something that is so, so important when you are launching a partner program to make sure that it isn't just something that the partner team focuses on, but that the sales team, the CS teams, everyone has a good understanding of the partners that you work with.

[00:10:14] And what your partner program looks like. I know you're a team of just one right now. Um, but you work closely with other departments. Can you tell me a little bit more about how you and Cheryl work together? Um, just to ensure the success of these partners. 

[00:10:31] Mike: [00:10:31] Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. So what I would say is, you know, I, I am a massive mighty team of one.

[00:10:36] Although I do have people that I work with throughout the organization that actually provide a lot of support. So I'm one plus 25 or something. Right? So at people like Cheryl who runs our sales enablement are just so impactful because. You know, you get a partner, you kind of conceptualize use cases, you get an integration set up, you know, all of that, but then it's actually taking that partnership and getting the company, all your, your teams, uh, enabled.

[00:11:04] And that's really where Cheryl and I work together. So, so we've developed a number of programs and Cheryl, I'm it. Turn it over to you, but like we've done a lot of things together where Cheryl really helps to bring life to these partnerships, to help train our teams on it, to have them understand what these partnerships are and how they can help them and help our customers.

[00:11:25] And so, you know, that's a crucially important. Um, a role and Cheryl does, it's just so well, she's actually one of the best that I've ever worked with in my career. So Cheryl, maybe share, um, share with Corrina, some of the stuff that we do, uh, in terms of the partner, uh, enablement work. Absolutely. 

[00:11:42] Cheryl: [00:11:42] Mike you're making me blush.

[00:11:44] Oh man. I can follow up on how you're making me blush here, but. Basically exactly what Mike said. It's definitely a tag team effort and I'm here to, to support Mike on not all of the magic that he's doing in terms of partnerships. And so typically what the handoff looks like is I'll come in and, or my team will come in really for the sales readiness aspect.

[00:12:05] So once Mike works his magic to establish the partnership, you know, there's a couple of things that follow. So once we understand that the technical integration work we'll then have a kickoff call with the actual partner and we will also include the PMN team. And really what we're doing in that kickoff call is really discussing the overall enablement plan for the partner and for Rollworks.

[00:12:26] And one of the things that we do in that call as well as we invite the partner to a partner spotlight session that we have at rollercoaster. And really what the partner spotlight series is. It takes place once a month, where we invite partners to an internal training for all of our customer facing teams.

[00:12:42] And during these sessions, we have the partner introduce themselves. We train our teams on the partnership, overview, the benefits, the technical understanding of the integration. We talk about what is the joint elevator pitch? What is the, what is that one sentence that our sellers really need to understand when they're on the call?

[00:13:00] Call on, you know, on the front lines and really wanting to include that, that partner on that call or the value of that partner. We also talk about joint use cases, implementation best practices, and maybe some pricing and packaging. And so all of that takes place in a partner spotlight session. Um, and typically we'll have a dry run with.

[00:13:21] The partner team and also the bulwarks team, um, just ensure that, you know, we're all set for that, that actual partner spotlight session that we have. And additionally, after that session, there are a couple of other things that we do as well to further enable our teams. So we'll send a follow-up to all of our teams with training resources and next.

[00:13:40] Steps. We'll also create cheat sheets that have, you know, discovery questions and demos and things like that. And we, we've also built an internal partner resource hub where we house all of this information so that all of our customer facing teams can go at any time and leverage this information during their, their sales efforts.

[00:13:59] In parallel to doing all of that internally to enable our customer facing teams. We're also making sure that we're building external resources, right? So we're building new website pages, blogs, press releases helps them articles and so much more so, but that's kind of what we're doing today and it's evolving and getting better 

[00:14:20] Carina: [00:14:20] in time as well.

[00:14:21] I love that. I was going to say, and maybe I'm biased. Because I do really work closely with you guys, but I think that you, you know, you, you start off with a really great, um, partner spotlight piece where your partners can come in. Um, and sometimes, you know, that's where things can fall off from there. But from working with your team, I have noticed that it's like your partnerships stay very top of mind.

[00:14:42] And so it is really crucial that yes, you have that, you know, specific partner spotlight session, but ensuring that you, you know, follow up and you keep, um, Giving your teams that related and relevant material. I'd also love to learn more about, um, the hub that you use. Do you leverage a specific tool or is this through HighSpot maybe an LMS.

[00:15:03] Cheryl: [00:15:03] Great question. So previously we actually use Google drive for our content repository and Google site. For our partner hub resource center, we actually built a homegrown solution. Um, and it housed all of our internal collateral, our training decks or pitch decks, um, other resources, like I previously mentioned, teacher sheets that had, you know, discovery question demos and things like that.

[00:15:26] But today we are actually excited to announce that we will be transitioning, uh, to a sales enablement platform. So we are implementing Showpad. Um, It will. Yeah. We're so excited about it and it's, it's really going to help us scale, right. And build a new and improved partner resource hub, um, from the previous Google site and Google drive that we had.

[00:15:47] Additionally, we actually use, uh, chorus. So core is, is a conversation intelligence platform. Not sure if you use one of those before. Um, but it's actually really important what you want to add. Measure or ensure that your sellers are properly positioning new message on the front lines. And so Mike talked about as having, you know, 14 plus partnerships in just 2020, and it's so important to stay on top of that.

[00:16:13] And so chorus actually helps us with life. Call assessments and really understanding how our sellers are positioning these new partnerships on the front lines. And then of course we used shared Slack channels for co-selling initiatives, with our partners directly in our sellers. Um, and, and Mike actually implemented crossbeam recently, which helps us understand, you know, the joint opportunities that we 

[00:16:35] Carina: [00:16:35] have.

[00:16:35] Yeah. There's a lot of other tools out there too, when it comes to partnerships, you know, like a partner portal and partners, stack, and other things like that. But good to know that you guys are using some really great tools that help your team really stay focused and get the information that they need.

[00:16:50] So when it comes to like externally training, Your partners on roll works. What are those steps that you take? Is it kind of similar to what you're doing internally or is it a completely different person? You 

[00:17:01] Mike: [00:17:01] know, we, we do a very similar thing. So I think, um, one of the things that we've done is we've built a template deck to talk about Rollworkss.

[00:17:10] And then what it also does is it's kind of modular and that we can, um, put in use cases for each specific partner. We have a slide that puts in our mutual customers, uh, and other things. Right. And then, okay. Maybe it'll have a couple of slides that talk about, um, you know, joint success stories or case studies, or what have you between the partner and Rollworkss.

[00:17:30] And so, uh, we have this kind of a rough template deck that we use with the different modular pieces. And then yes, we go and we present the partnership in kind of what I call reverse partner spotlights, uh, where we go, you know, for example, Carrie and I, I went and presented to San DOSO a few weeks ago. I presented to the Bombora at all hands.

[00:17:49] Team, uh, there, you know, this happens usually about once a month or, or a couple of months that we do and go out and present to our partners. So we certainly do that. And then in terms of, of kind of enabling those other teams, uh, we do also create, you know, joint, um, uh, PDFs on the partnership that we share with both teams.

[00:18:07] We do create landing pages and other things, uh, for some partners. So it really varies, but it. Pretty similar, um, to what we do for our own internal enablement. Right. I, I 

[00:18:17] Carina: [00:18:17] think you've, you've done a really great job at this and I feel like I know the answer to this next question. I want to have, um, both of you answer it, but do you think internal enablement on partners?

[00:18:29] So we're just focusing on internal enablement enablement, um, is a must have for a successful partnership. Yeah. 

[00:18:35] Cheryl: [00:18:35] That's a great question. I am actually going to hand the mic over to 

[00:18:38] Mike: [00:18:38] Mike. Absolutely. Yes. So yes. I, I was a trick question. I don't think either of us would say no. Uh, you really just, you can't make it work, uh, Corrina without, uh, the, the internal enablement.

[00:18:52] Uh, you know, I, I always say like, um, a partner integration or a partnership that has no adoption or no understanding is worthless. It just sits there. I mean, so many times we've seen this, right? So you have to have your sales team, your account management, your customer success teams, be aware of the value of partners and partner integrations.

[00:19:12] And if they're not, it's not going to go anywhere. You're not going to see the adoption that you're looking for. And then it's staggering. 

[00:19:18] Carina: [00:19:18] I completely agree. And specifically talking too about integrations. Um, you want your team to really understand. Stand how that integration works and what's the value behind it, you know, not just, Oh, we have an integration together, but how can this help our mutual customer or a prospect, and really be able to speak to that.

[00:19:36] And I think that having that internal enablement really does help move the needle. And I mean, I can already see from your guys's team that you have done a really, really great job there. Um, And it's just proven that, you know, just stay top of mind, have those different areas in those hubs for your team to access, um, and make it really easy to, for them to find.

[00:19:58] Mike, do you think that your background in customer success has helped you to better understand how to. Leverage partners internally and enable them. 

[00:20:07] Mike: [00:20:07] I'd like to think so. So I, I I'd like to think so. So I think when I was doing customer success, I was always looking for ways to provide additional value to my customers.

[00:20:18] Right. And. Uh, not only that to be a trusted advisor to them. And so if I was aware of an integration that could help them do their business better to achieve better results, I wanted to know about it. Right. And so I was pretty close with the partnership team, uh, before I joined it at, um, Marquetto and I was always trying to find like, what are the things that I can recommend.

[00:20:39] To my customer that might make their life easier. It might save them time. It might give them greater efficiency. It might give them better ROI. So I wanted to explore those things and then bring them to light to the customer. And then I looked like a hero. I looked like that trusted advisor. Right. And then at the end of the day, like at the end of the quarter, my renewal rates would be better.

[00:20:58] Right. And so that's, that's super important. Um, you know, we're starting to see early signs. We've now been tracking this for the last several quarters, but we're starting to see early signs that renewal rates are quite a bit higher. Uh, if you have one partner integration or more implemented and it makes sense, right?

[00:21:15] Because those customers are using more of your solution. They have a broader solution and they're probably getting more value from it. So I think that, that my background. Yeah. In customer success tied into it. Well, 

[00:21:27] Carina: [00:21:27] yeah. Yeah. I think that that's a good point that you just touched on too, because a lot of there's so many different types of partner programs all over, and a lot of it is focused on the channel and reselling and co-selling, but now what I'm starting to see more and more as I continue to work with more integration partners.

[00:21:45] Um, and people in this space is that it may not have a direct effect on reselling or co-selling, but those renewal rates and retention because of a specific integration are a lot higher. Um, so it's just revenue in a different way. And that's been very exciting to see. 

[00:22:02] Cheryl: [00:22:02] Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with Ukraine on that, especially cause I think right now, Our partnerships are so important to our strategy, just because we take that approach of meeting our marketers, where they're already at, within their VPN journey.

[00:22:16] And oftentimes we're leveraging, you know, aside from our native capabilities, our partners for, you know, some of those tactics that are very important to our marketers, like gifting website personalization. And so, um, to your point, it is, you know, sometimes just adding that additional value that can help, um, you know, with a better close rate or help, uh, you know, Get that renewal.

[00:22:39] And so I couldn't agree more with 

[00:22:41] Carina: [00:22:41] you on that. Definitely interesting how there is so many different touch points. And whereas in the past, maybe it was just focused on this net new number. It's now really switching a focus to more of, well, how is this affecting renewal rates? Um, and that's just a really great now new thing that we're discovering.

[00:23:00] Um, and I do love it. Um, Can you talk to me a little bit about the partnerships maturity curve and how you follow it today? Michael, I'll 

[00:23:11] Mike: [00:23:11] start with you. Yeah, that that's a topic near and dear to my heart. I wrote a blog about it on the crossbeam blog. If anyone is curious and it's called the partner maturity curve.

[00:23:21] Co-marketing flip or something. If you look that up, you'll find it. But you know, I think partners go through a definite maturity curve and it's, it starts with you. You have a quick call to see, are you both interested in working with each other? Is there a good overlap in your, your ideal customer profile?

[00:23:39] So your ICP, do you share similar ICPCs um, you know, is there an interest from both sides? Are you both leaning into each other? Do you have resources, then you figure out the use case. You build an MVP integration to, to, um, deliver that use case. Uh, and then you kind of come out with like, we have, uh, an integration available and you start to either announce it.

[00:24:01] You start to get early customers to adopt it and use it. And then you start to see the value that they get from it. Right after that point, then you take it and you take that value statement and you try and drive greater adoption through co-marketing. So things like joint blog posts and webinars and attending, um, Events or virtual events together.

[00:24:19] Um, those are the kinds of things that you can do to drive adoption. And so there's, there's sort of that, that curve that I just went through and it's kind of goes on up into the right. You hope in terms of the adoption and growth that you see in a partnership. I think every partner you can say is somewhere on that line and you just manage towards that.

[00:24:40] And, and then you think about, okay, what stage are they in? Well, maybe they're in the stage of, uh, well, you've just announced the partnership and you need to get the first few customers using it. Maybe they're in a later stage where like, everything is released, you have all the collateral and all the materials, and you're just now executing on trying to drive more and more adoption.

[00:24:57] Right. So, um, Every partner can be in a different phase of that customer maturity curve. Um, uh, and every, you know, every partnership is slightly different, but basically it fits into some of those standard segments that I just met. Yeah. 

[00:25:11] Carina: [00:25:11] Is there a specific timeline you follow, you know, like zero to three months you're in this stage and then, um, three to six months you're over here.

[00:25:19] And then by 12 months you should be at. You know, in peak of the partnership, 

[00:25:23] Mike: [00:25:23] every partnership is different creams. So typically yes, you know, the first part should take the first quarter to write, to understand the use cases and that, and then to get an MVP integration up. But you know, sometimes to get an MVP integration up, it could take a year.

[00:25:39] Right. And so if you look at the maturity curve and you have like, kind of notches on it for. For the different phases, if you will, sometimes those phases can be longer. It just depends on each partnership. Right? So traditionally, yes. So three months for the, for the use cases and that maybe the first six months for an MVP integration, and then you move into kind of the co-marketing and value statements and all that and adoption phase, but it doesn't always follow 

[00:26:03] Carina: [00:26:03] that path before you even go through this.

[00:26:05] Maturity curve with partners. What are the first few things you try to identify prior to, you know, starting a partnership with, um, a potential partner? What are you looking for when you are trying to partner with a specific 

[00:26:20] Mike: [00:26:20] company? It is almost four criteria. All right. So the first one is kind of, what are the main components of a marketer's tech stack?

[00:26:28] Right. What are the solutions that they're leveraging, uh, to execute on their marketing efforts? So typically you'll find things like CRM, marketing, automation, uh, gifting, sending platform, social advertising, ABM, personalization, um, email signature webinar platforms. There's a whole bunch of these different pieces, right?

[00:26:48] So what are the main components of that? We look at that, right. And our. Is the partner a part of, one of those main kind of components. Right? So, so that's one, two, do we have strong overlap in that, um, ICP, the ideal customer profile, right? Uh, do we have a decent number of mutual customers is always something that I want to look at.

[00:27:08] Um, the third one, are we hearing demand from the market or, you know, our mutual customers, like. Popping up and bubbling up and asking for an integration. That's typically signed that there's, there's something there. Right. And then the fourth one, and I kinda touched on this a little earlier, but it is the partner, um, like leaning in, are they receptive to wanting to work with you?

[00:27:30] It's so important because you know, you don't want to have to chase a partnership. Uh, if you don't have two interested teams, um, I would just say, put it on the back burner for now. If there, if the other partner or the other party is not interested and then maybe down the road, come back to it and see if they're interested at that time.

[00:27:47] Maybe they just had other priorities. Right. But it's so important to have a partner that leans in, um, Corrina. I love working with you and the Sonos team because you've been really awesome and receptive and leaning into, to working with us. Right. And that makes for a strong partnership. So I think it's super important to have that leaning in.

[00:28:04] So those are kind of the four criteria that I look at for, um, evaluating a new partner or bringing in a new partner. 

[00:28:11] Carina: [00:28:11] Those are really great criteria. Um, and thank you for the kind words I think that you guys have made it very easy to work with as well. And it does come down to, you know, the enablement and the programs you've put in place that just make it very easy to follow.

[00:28:27] Um, so with just our last few minutes here, I'd love to have some. Closing pieces of advice. So Cheryl, when it comes to enablement on partners, what's one thing you have seen as extremely successful. And then one thing that you've seen as a fan let's start 

[00:28:42] Cheryl: [00:28:42] with successful, you know, when it comes to.

[00:28:46] Enabling your teams internally and talking about all of your teams pre pre-sales post-sales your SDR team sales teams. A's CSMs. What's really important is that you're, you're creating Mindshare for them. Right. So they have their pitch down when they're on the call of what they're going to say and who they're going to say it to, and then adding partnerships in the mix just adds more to it.

[00:29:10] Right. So what's, what's been very successful and what's been helpful is just creating digestible information for them. Again, you know, we talked about this. Uh, earlier, but we were launching a lot of partnership. Who's launched a lot of partnerships, especially in 2020. And so having 14 different partners to choose from, and then having to really nail your value prop down of, you know, the, the value that we provide at roll works can be a lot, and it can be a lot to, to really have to understand how to put into two sentences on a call.

[00:29:44] So what's really helpful is again, creating. Simple digestible information and having it very easy for your entire sales team to find one of the ways that we do that is by creating like a partner spotlight, cheat sheet, internal doc. And again, on that cheat sheet, we make sure like the first couple of sentences is the joint value prop is the elevator pitch.

[00:30:04] So I think successfully that has, that's been, you know, working well with our teams. Um, and I think it's something that we need to continue to think about. 

[00:30:13] Carina: [00:30:13] I agree with that. All of that easily accessible and easily digestible. You need to be able to have information that anyone can find, whether they're on a call or quickly meeting with a customer.

[00:30:25] So that's really, really great. And, you know, making it, like you said, it's hard to put an entire product offering into two sentences, but making it something, um, That's easy for people to understand so that they can share it. Um, no matter what role they're in, and I'd love to ask you Mike, something similar, but a little bit different.

[00:30:45] What would you say your two successful strategies are for building successful partnerships? 

[00:30:51] Mike: [00:30:51] Here's a broad question, but so Corrina, I would just say that like, uh, for buildings, successful partnerships, uh, think about the value you have to put yourself in the partner's shoes as well, and really understand that it's a two way street.

[00:31:04] Right? And so you really have to kind of think about how do you make it win-win for both sides and for your joint shared customers. Right? If you can do that, I think everyone benefits and you have a successful partnership. And so what I mean by that is, is find ways to compliment each other. Right. In terms of the integration itself should work and save your end customers time.

[00:31:26] Uh, it should provide value for them. It should improve their ROI. There's all kinds of different things that you can do, but really think about the value points for each party. So think about the value points for your partner. What's in it for them. Right. You think about what's in it for your end customer, what's in it for them.

[00:31:40] And how are they going to benefit if you do those things and you put yourselves in the shoes of your partner or in the shoes of your customer, it'll help you drive a much more successful partnership for everyone involved. 

[00:31:52] Carina: [00:31:52] I absolutely love that. Well, I think that this was an incredible episode that really does talk deeply about how enablement and partnerships really go hand in hand.

[00:32:04] And like you guys touched on before there's been sales enablement. Now there really is a big, big, uh, buy-in for partner enablement. And I truly do not. I think that there can be a successful program, a successful partner program without enablement, um, as a large factor in building it out. Um, if you guys want to read more about the partner maturity curve, go check out crossbeams blog featuring Mike.

[00:32:32] Um, also please head over to roll works. Website to learn a little bit more about what they do and all of the different partners that they work with. It has been a pleasure working with you too. Um, and being able to talk and learn a little bit more about your program today. So 

[00:32:45] Mike: [00:32:45] thank you both. Likewise, we enjoy working with you.

[00:32:48] It's been our pleasure. So thanks so much.